from the writings of okumura shigejirō (a writer of the same era as gingetsu itoh and fujita seiko), okumura rejected the claim that disappearing and shapeshifter magic was associated with martial arts/escape techniques which later became ninja fiction
he even wrote a book about ''ninjutsu to maho'' in 1917, which his writings fully discuss Japanese and global magic, there are no ninjas at all, or they haven't been created yet XD
That is fascinating - thank you for the heads-up! Okumura's book is even available through the NDL, so let me take a look at it...https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/916376.
Not sure if you had ever read through or sourced this site, but it essentially says that the image of the "shadow mage" ninja has been a literary device even in the Edo period.
@Nico - the problem I have with the NDL pieces (and there are a few of them) is that they create the impression that 'ninja' has been a completely stable and self-evident concept for hundreds of years in Japan. It's trying to create a lineage that I am not sure is really there, as I pointed out here: https://criticalninjatheory.substack.com/p/shadow-mages-fictional-wizards-and
A more accurate way to put it would be that there are loads of characters with magical powers in Edo-era fiction, but these characters are a usually a very poor fit for the postwar concept of the 'ninja.' I see very little overlap between e.g. Nikki Danjo in the 1777 play Precious Incense and Autumn Flowers of Sendai vs. Ishikawa Goemon in the 1962 movie Shinobi no mono. I think it makes more sense, and is less confusing for readers, to treat them as separate constructs.
Two further points - the NDL article never attempts to define precisely what a ninja is - it's basically anyone who does anything sneaky, which is so broad as to render the concept meaningless. Recent scholarship coming out of Mie University, for instance, has flatly stated that the real Goemon wasn't a ninja (he was a thief), nor was Hattori Hanzō (regular samurai), so clearly there's some argument over definitions that needs to be had here.
Second, I think almost everyone in Japan now acknowledges that Okuse Heishichirō was a total disaster as an historian, so it's disappointing to see him mentioned completely uncritically here.
After I checked the link, the content is no different from the other opinion of many authors about ninja, but the problem is, is it true that the magical ninjutsu boom from the late edo period to the 1920s was inspired by the activities of the Sengoku era Shinobi?
or is it just a linguistic phenomenon
in Indonesia there is a word that is the same as the nin, namely "siluman"
siluman has several meanings
1. hidden/stealth, ex: Pasukan Siluman (stealth troops/spy/shinobi), Uang siluman (hidden/corrupt money), Pesawat Siluman (stealth aircraft)
2. Shapeshifter magic/ghost/half human
(this meaning is more widespread in Indonesia)
3. Magic/Illusion (this is a word only exists in Old Javanese language)
I think ''nin'' experiences the same phenomenon, so there is no correlation between ninjutsu magic and shinobi even though the kanji are the same
For example, the kanji mi(密) in mikyo(密教)and mittei(密偵), of course there is no historical connection, only a linguistic connection
from the writings of okumura shigejirō (a writer of the same era as gingetsu itoh and fujita seiko), okumura rejected the claim that disappearing and shapeshifter magic was associated with martial arts/escape techniques which later became ninja fiction
he even wrote a book about ''ninjutsu to maho'' in 1917, which his writings fully discuss Japanese and global magic, there are no ninjas at all, or they haven't been created yet XD
That is fascinating - thank you for the heads-up! Okumura's book is even available through the NDL, so let me take a look at it...https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/916376.
Not sure if you had ever read through or sourced this site, but it essentially says that the image of the "shadow mage" ninja has been a literary device even in the Edo period.
https://www.ndl.go.jp/kaleido/e/entry/33/1.html
@Nico - the problem I have with the NDL pieces (and there are a few of them) is that they create the impression that 'ninja' has been a completely stable and self-evident concept for hundreds of years in Japan. It's trying to create a lineage that I am not sure is really there, as I pointed out here: https://criticalninjatheory.substack.com/p/shadow-mages-fictional-wizards-and
A more accurate way to put it would be that there are loads of characters with magical powers in Edo-era fiction, but these characters are a usually a very poor fit for the postwar concept of the 'ninja.' I see very little overlap between e.g. Nikki Danjo in the 1777 play Precious Incense and Autumn Flowers of Sendai vs. Ishikawa Goemon in the 1962 movie Shinobi no mono. I think it makes more sense, and is less confusing for readers, to treat them as separate constructs.
Two further points - the NDL article never attempts to define precisely what a ninja is - it's basically anyone who does anything sneaky, which is so broad as to render the concept meaningless. Recent scholarship coming out of Mie University, for instance, has flatly stated that the real Goemon wasn't a ninja (he was a thief), nor was Hattori Hanzō (regular samurai), so clearly there's some argument over definitions that needs to be had here.
Second, I think almost everyone in Japan now acknowledges that Okuse Heishichirō was a total disaster as an historian, so it's disappointing to see him mentioned completely uncritically here.
After I checked the link, the content is no different from the other opinion of many authors about ninja, but the problem is, is it true that the magical ninjutsu boom from the late edo period to the 1920s was inspired by the activities of the Sengoku era Shinobi?
or is it just a linguistic phenomenon
in Indonesia there is a word that is the same as the nin, namely "siluman"
siluman has several meanings
1. hidden/stealth, ex: Pasukan Siluman (stealth troops/spy/shinobi), Uang siluman (hidden/corrupt money), Pesawat Siluman (stealth aircraft)
2. Shapeshifter magic/ghost/half human
(this meaning is more widespread in Indonesia)
3. Magic/Illusion (this is a word only exists in Old Javanese language)
I think ''nin'' experiences the same phenomenon, so there is no correlation between ninjutsu magic and shinobi even though the kanji are the same
For example, the kanji mi(密) in mikyo(密教)and mittei(密偵), of course there is no historical connection, only a linguistic connection
Yeah, this is the question, isn't it? If we could answer that it would shed a lot of light on a lot of different things.